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Post by THE BEAST on Jul 14, 2021 7:51:35 GMT
morning beauties
It's a lovely day outside… It seems to have been far too long I've been waiting to be able to say that
I'm currently having a long-running discussion on some woman's thread on Facebook where they are attempting to tell me that the (admittedly dreadfully blatant) foul on saka by A certain Italian defensive rock was, amongst other phrases, "just not cricket"…
It is like trying to explain the mechanics of flight to a goldfish… I know it's ultimately pointless but I'm kind of enjoying watching them flop about
Right, off into the sunshine
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Post by spot51 on Jul 14, 2021 8:41:56 GMT
Morning Scummers
Glorious here too and a picnic and walkies on the Downs looks in order today.
I am amused how England performing at tournaments drags non-football people towards the game. My Aunt's older sister, bedridden and in her 90s wanted to talk about the football when I phoned her on Monday! Even I am a little surprised how former players condone "the Dark Arts" even when deployed against us. I understand the notion of the "good foul" and "taking one for the team" but the former pros did not decry Chiellini for dragging back Saka by his collar and leaving him on the ground.
Italy bossed most of the match stats on Sunday, particularly yellow cards. They outscored us 5-1 which suggests they are better at "getting away with fouls" than England. Indeed Maguire's foul on Belotti was borderline yellow - Jorginho's on Grealish was borderline red. They used their yellow cards to gain a tactical advantage.
England can and should learn from Italy if they want to wear gold medals. not silver or bronze. Chiellini's grab of Saka's shirt was a perfect example - a long way from goal so not preventing a goal-scoring opportunity, don't fancy chasing this quick nipper down the wing, have still not used my "yellow card" so, over you go! you get one of those every game. The knack is knowing when to use them. In league football totting up will eventually get you a ban but Italy negotiated that tournament without getting anyone banned and came into the final with all 16 who participated willing and able to take one for the team. It gets you an advantage, especially in finals, and England should not ignore the opportunities presented by learning "the Dark Arts".
Athletics was good last night but fewer GB stars appeared than were expected. Guess risking injury so close to last year's Olympics may have influenced them.
Golf starts tomorrow.
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Post by jickster on Jul 14, 2021 9:48:38 GMT
I'm currently having a long-running discussion on some woman's thread on Facebook where they are attempting to tell me that the (admittedly dreadfully blatant) foul on saka by A certain Italian defensive rock was, amongst other phrases, "just not cricket"… Putting aside the England game, I know it's been going on for many years, but I'm starting to get really fed up with the tactical foul where players are happy to take a yellow card for the team. I've seen people proposing stronger punishments (eg. a penalty, red card, perhaps an enforced substitution) for players who do this. It used to be something that players made up as they went along, but now Pep in particular gets criticised for using it more as a planned tactic to disrupt opponents gameplan. For possession-dominant teams where the main risk is being caught on the break, it can neutralise any threat from the weaker sides. One of the worst examples I've ever seen was actually by JWP, I think it was that shambles game at Newcastle this season where he pulled someone back in their half- they were more or less clean through but he got a yellow purely because it was so far from goal. So just wonder whether everyone would be happy for it to be clamped down on somehow, or if you actually like it as 'part of the game'? I'm tending towards the clamp down myself now. |
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Post by spot51 on Jul 14, 2021 10:24:03 GMT
I'm currently having a long-running discussion on some woman's thread on Facebook where they are attempting to tell me that the (admittedly dreadfully blatant) foul on saka by A certain Italian defensive rock was, amongst other phrases, "just not cricket"… Putting aside the England game, I know it's been going on for many years, but I'm starting to get really fed up with the tactical foul where players are happy to take a yellow card for the team. I've seen people proposing stronger punishments (eg. a penalty, red card, perhaps an enforced substitution) for players who do this. It used to be something that players made up as they went along, but now Pep in particular gets criticised for using it more as a planned tactic to disrupt opponents gameplan. For possession-dominant teams where the main risk is being caught on the break, it can neutralise any threat from the weaker sides. One of the worst examples I've ever seen was actually by JWP, I think it was that shambles game at Newcastle this season where he pulled someone back in their half- they were more or less clean through but he got a yellow purely because it was so far from goal. So just wonder whether everyone would be happy for it to be clamped down on somehow, or if you actually like it as 'part of the game'? I'm tending towards the clamp down myself now. That is for football authorities to resolve. The current rules probably need changing but smart coaches will always test their boundaries. I don't like dirty play but it is accepted in the game and most pundits applaud the use of tactical fouls if it helps your side. The game talks fair play but rewards winners. |
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Post by Furry Frank The Combat Wombat on Jul 14, 2021 10:46:21 GMT
Morning
Toasty out, but I'm in. Struggling to get motivated looking at all that sun our the window... seems like the same goes for the builders, as none of the buggers have turned up.
The tactical fouling is a tricky one; I guess the issue the authorities have is proving intent, if it's fairly innocuous from a safety point of view, then how do they justify sending someone off for a relatively minor foul?
As far as the Italy game goes, England were guilty of being a bit naive; clearly it was going to happen, it's Italy FFS, so we should've planned for it. Dare I say it, another reason JWP should've been in the squad as he's clearly learned a fair bit of the dark arts in the last couple of years (eh, Wilfred?)
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Post by jickster on Jul 14, 2021 10:49:33 GMT
Putting aside the England game, I know it's been going on for many years, but I'm starting to get really fed up with the tactical foul where players are happy to take a yellow card for the team. I've seen people proposing stronger punishments (eg. a penalty, red card, perhaps an enforced substitution) for players who do this. It used to be something that players made up as they went along, but now Pep in particular gets criticised for using it more as a planned tactic to disrupt opponents gameplan. For possession-dominant teams where the main risk is being caught on the break, it can neutralise any threat from the weaker sides. One of the worst examples I've ever seen was actually by JWP, I think it was that shambles game at Newcastle this season where he pulled someone back in their half- they were more or less clean through but he got a yellow purely because it was so far from goal. So just wonder whether everyone would be happy for it to be clamped down on somehow, or if you actually like it as 'part of the game'? I'm tending towards the clamp down myself now. That is for football authorities to resolve. The current rules probably need changing but smart coaches will always test their boundaries. I don't like dirty play but it is accepted in the game and most pundits applaud the use of tactical fouls if it helps your side. The game talks fair play but rewards winners. Sure, but people in charge decided enough was enough with the professional fouls, the Willie Young type ones, and the game is certainly better off for it. It's less clear cut, but getting rid of the Chiellini fouls which Fernandinho is the master of, would also help the game in my opinion. Do you agree with that? (Genuine question, because I get that it has its own attraction) Just because something has always happened doesn't mean it's right and we can gradually chip away at classic gamesmanship techniques if we have the desire. |
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Post by spot51 on Jul 14, 2021 14:03:34 GMT
That is for football authorities to resolve. The current rules probably need changing but smart coaches will always test their boundaries. I don't like dirty play but it is accepted in the game and most pundits applaud the use of tactical fouls if it helps your side. The game talks fair play but rewards winners. Sure, but people in charge decided enough was enough with the professional fouls, the Willie Young type ones, and the game is certainly better off for it. It's less clear cut, but getting rid of the Chiellini fouls which Fernandinho is the master of, would also help the game in my opinion. Do you agree with that? (Genuine question, because I get that it has its own attraction) Just because something has always happened doesn't mean it's right and we can gradually chip away at classic gamesmanship techniques if we have the desire. Yes, I agree with your principles but won't criticise any coach or player for getting away with what they can. Pep is a great coach because his sides play football that people want to watch but Pep is required to be a winner too. You don't get those jobs to play pretty football but to bring home trophies. As I said, in league competitions persistent fouling catches up with you (ask Oriel Romeu) but in knock out football (when winning every game matters) if you don't exploit all the avenues open to you, you are failing in your job. I guess some sort of "sin bin" may be trialled to deter minor offenders but rules about what warrants a sending off should also be under constant review. |
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