Should Martin compromise on his tactics?

[researchersaint]

Hi, I've written about Martin's philosophy and used examples from the Leicester game to ask if the juice is worth the squeeze when it comes to his tactics? With the squad we have, would we be better off playing a more simplistic way? Would love to know what you think!

analyticsunited.co.uk/2023/09/19/russell-martin-is-the-juice-worth-the-squeeze/

[Mandochris]

27% of statistics turn up in the wrong thread.
©Bent Eric, TUI circa 2000.

[crazydanny]

The answer is no. He was hired to play this type of football. Maybe he’s a bit radical, but we’ve only just started. It would be nice though if he could stop us conceding so many goals. He used to be a defender so that shouldn’t be too hard.

[OneBeat]

No. Strap in for the ride.

[yateleysaint]

Yes, because his tactics are plainly a load of old bank.

[StEtienne]

No he shouldn’t but he should take them elsewhere.

[saintsfan73]

Sept 19, 2023 13:58:20 GMT crazydanny said:

The answer is no. He was hired to play this type of football.

I think you've hit the problem on the head there Danny. We hired a managed not to win games of football and thus gain promotion but instead to play football in a certain way.

By those metrics Martin is a resounding success. We are dominating possession and completing hundreds of passes every game.

Sadly we have lost all of our last 4 games by the combined total of 12-2.

[ivangolac]

Facts.

Attack is ranked 20/24 in creating chances
We are ranked 24/24 in taking those chances
Defence is ranked 24/24 in allowing chances against
We are ranked 23/24 in those chances ending up in our net.

No player has been improved

Coach is happily throwing players under the bus now blaming last season when half the side wasn’t even here last season.

Our position is not representing our play, our play is relegation zone across the first 8 games, we are lucky to be mid table.

Everyone knows exactly how to play against us.

Frustratingly this exactly how the Swansea fans said it was going to play out.

If we do not act now, and I mean now, we are falling further. As said before, we have not bottomed out yet.

Do not entertain keeping faith, this is not the same as Arteta when he had his tough Arsenal spell.

[Furry Frank The Combat Wombat]

The sad thing is, I think he has in the last couple of games with us sitting a bit deeper, dropping the inverted fullbacks and then playing our 3 slightly more defensive CMs last game... but it still hasn't worked.

I'm not saying there's no problem with the system, but it feels like it's more a problem with the players and leadership again. Unfortunately now the window's closed, there's not much they can do to fix that.

[ivangolac]

We need to stop this fecking around and tighten the feck up. Play 451, you can do that progressively with players like Edozie and Kala as the wide 5’s. Play significantly further up the pitch and start squeezing and pressing the opposition in their half.

It’s a different sport but I was struck by this last night….under Gatland Wales rugby have changed mantra. “We play zero rugby in our half, we play expansively in the opposition half”

[choixkoix]

He has tweaked already - we've sat lower down the pitch in the last 2 matches. The inverted full backs also did less inverting.

He's also tried what he might consider a plan B already - the second half vs Leicester where an overloaded-in-attack version of us tried to get the ball into last third quicker.

Its a very simplistic thing to 'compromise on his tactics'. We think he's gonna go Nathan Jones-ball?

He's shown in the last 2 matches that he's prepared to emphasise more solidity and less risk. That was necessary and it hasnt worked but I would proffer thats due to how low the confidence is and how tight the margins are when the team is firing on just one cylinder (and where our attack is Che & AdamA.)

At this point, each day of training will slowly bottom us out and build us back to somewhere where we might win a football match (and be a day closer to a proper striker being in our starting line-up). I would say, keep with the current adjustments and pls lord train our midfield and attack on viable ways to attack through the middle.

But Leeds will be too stern a test too soon.

I fear another crucial thing to be trained - how to discern when to play from the back and when to boot it - isnt going to make the top of the to-do list... Theres too much that needs addresssing at present.

Practically speaking, he needs more time for all the detail on the desired way of playing to be put across. Too much needs to be worked on. It's clearly not an overnight job when we are this fragile. He isnt going to tear up his tactics; process managers never do. He shouldnt do so either. But yes, he's got to continue tweaking. A teamsheet without a maverick Aribo / Holgate decision would help.

[choixkoix]

Counterpoint to the original question... Whats the biggest problem with the team we've seen in the last 2 matches?

For me, its mentality / morale / fear - all sides of the same coin.

Whats the quick fix for that?

Us.

[Mandochris]

And midfielders helping the defence by offering better out ball options.
The defence can't pass it out of there's no-one to pas it to.

[theallseeingeye]

I think we need to let this year play out

Promotion already looking very unlikely…. Mid table at best.

I personally think we are only going to bully and beat teams that are scared… if we’d won the 1st 6 that might have happened but we’ve been found out and nobody will fear us now… and I don’t think we have the grunt for a dog fight or the class to win 10 on the bounce.

We are… all fart and no sh1t.

We have to give it half the season as it could pick up…

But….

[Willshakes.]

The reality is Sports Republic haven't got a bloody clue how to run a football club.

Since they have purchased Southampton F.C it has been a sucession of stupid decisions, appointments and misery.

Where has the identity of our club gone? The pride, passion and excitement.

It's like we are just a empty vessel on a steady course to the lower leagues.

Somebody needs to take some accountability because right now we are rudderless and free falling...

The tactics I will leave to you chaps.

The problem we all have is "Tactics" mean nothing without a solid leadership, at all levels. WE DON'T HAVE THAT.

Just my opinion. Time will tell. I don't mind the Lower Leagues. I've thouroghly enjoyed watching us in them.

The problem we have are the owners. Parachute payment & go ! That's the only "Tactics" I'm hoping for.