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Post by Sir B3na1i on Jun 13, 2024 19:10:07 GMT
I read on a Newcastle site today that the club are going to pay up his contract, so he would be coming on a free. What’s not to like about that? Other than wages for a 30 something journeyman and blocking the pathway for our recently neglected Academy? Nothing I guess. What makes him a journeyman? He's had two clubs in the past 11 seasons (three in total in his 14 year professional career. Nearly all in the top divisions in Scotland and England. Plus he's been and international. Each move has been an upward one for him too. I'd say that's a pretty solid record and at 30 he's a good age for a newly promoted side
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Post by vectis on Jun 14, 2024 8:10:27 GMT
I read somewhere that we might go back in for Nathan Wood from Swansea. Can't find the link now. Maybe it was some random thing on X. Anyway, another rumour for the pile.
Have we signed Frazer and Downes yet? If not, what's taking so long?
And where is Matt O'Reilly? He's only 50mil.
Oh and why isn't Ramsdale pictured on the OS yet?
Come on Saints, get yer finger out!
(OK, slow day at work.)
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Post by saintsfan73 on Jun 14, 2024 9:23:54 GMT
I read somewhere that we might go back in for Nathan Wood from Swansea. Can't find the link now. Maybe it was some random thing on X. Anyway, another rumour for the pile. Have we signed Frazer and Downes yet? If not, what's taking so long? And where is Matt O'Reilly? He's only 50mil. Oh and why isn't Ramsdale pictured on the OS yet? Come on Saints, get yer finger out! (OK, slow day at work.) I don't think the window is officially open yet? (and most contracts expire at the end of the month so not much activity until July). Arsenal will want more than £30m for Ramsdale so a bit out of our price bracket lol!
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Post by vectis on Jun 14, 2024 9:26:16 GMT
I read somewhere that we might go back in for Nathan Wood from Swansea. Can't find the link now. Maybe it was some random thing on X. Anyway, another rumour for the pile. Have we signed Frazer and Downes yet? If not, what's taking so long? And where is Matt O'Reilly? He's only 50mil. Oh and why isn't Ramsdale pictured on the OS yet? Come on Saints, get yer finger out! (OK, slow day at work.) I don't think the window is officially open yet? (and most contracts expire at the end of the month so not much activity until July). Arsenal will want more than £30m for Ramsdale so a bit out of our price bracket lol! Yes. It's possible I wasn't being entirely serious. Except for the Nathan Wood thing. I did see that somewhere. It's now in the rumour pile.
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Post by saintsfan73 on Jun 14, 2024 9:28:25 GMT
Other than wages for a 30 something journeyman and blocking the pathway for our recently neglected Academy? Nothing I guess. What makes him a journeyman? He's had two clubs in the past 11 seasons (three in total in his 14 year professional career. Nearly all in the top divisions in Scotland and England. Plus he's been and international. Each move has been an upward one for him too. I'd say that's a pretty solid record and at 30 he's a good age for a newly promoted side Newcastle were happy to put him out on loan last season and didn't see any future for him so if there had been any intertest from other PL clubs he would have gone there instead of dropping down a division with us. He was a decent player for us (albeit not a nailed on starter) in the Championship and if we hadn't got promoted then he would be a good signing but not now that we are in the PL again. As someone said earlier, he might be good for the odd 20 mins here and there but I would rather we would get back to the Markus era idea of using our Academy for this. Happy with signing THB and Downes from our loanees but not Fraser. If he ends us playing a lot of minutes then it's going to be a long season.
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Post by Sir B3na1i on Jun 14, 2024 9:35:21 GMT
What makes him a journeyman? He's had two clubs in the past 11 seasons (three in total in his 14 year professional career. Nearly all in the top divisions in Scotland and England. Plus he's been and international. Each move has been an upward one for him too. I'd say that's a pretty solid record and at 30 he's a good age for a newly promoted side Newcastle were happy to put him out on loan last season and didn't see any future for him so if there had been any intertest from other PL clubs he would have gone there instead of dropping down a division with us. He was a decent player for us (albeit not a nailed on starter) in the Championship and if we hadn't got promoted then he would be a good signing but not now that we are in the PL again. As someone said earlier, he might be good for the odd 20 mins here and there but I would rather we would get back to the Markus era idea of using our Academy for this. Happy with signing THB and Downes from our loanees but not Fraser. If he ends us playing a lot of minutes then it's going to be a long season. Journey man? A new PL squad needs players with good experience of PL and in particular the bit of the PL we'll be competing in. Weirdly, we don't have a lot of that in our squad despite spending the last few years in the bottom few - we only have Stephens, Bednarek, KWP with decent experience at that level really assuming Che and McCarthy go
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Post by saintsfan73 on Jun 14, 2024 9:45:31 GMT
Newcastle were happy to put him out on loan last season and didn't see any future for him so if there had been any intertest from other PL clubs he would have gone there instead of dropping down a division with us. He was a decent player for us (albeit not a nailed on starter) in the Championship and if we hadn't got promoted then he would be a good signing but not now that we are in the PL again. As someone said earlier, he might be good for the odd 20 mins here and there but I would rather we would get back to the Markus era idea of using our Academy for this. Happy with signing THB and Downes from our loanees but not Fraser. If he ends us playing a lot of minutes then it's going to be a long season. Journey man? A new PL squad needs players with good experience of PL and in particular the bit of the PL we'll be competing in. Weirdly, we don't have a lot of that in our squad despite spending the last few years in the bottom few - we only have Stephens, Bednarek, KWP with decent experience at that level really assuming Che and McCarthy go He's 30 and has played for 5 clubs but if it's semantics then just say bang average footballer in his 30s. He's had two seasons where he had a fairly decent return on goals (5 and 7) but that was 2017-19. We need experience is the old bollux from the 80s Illingsworth regularly trots out on TUI whenever we are going on a bad run but I think good players regardless of age are far more important. Also I really think we need to go back to the days of getting players from the Academy into our first team. No issues with bringing in an experienced player in his 30s if he is going to play pretty much every game but not when it's for a squad player who will be lucky to get 20 mins on the pitch most weeks. If we are bringing in old pros for these cameos then we are blocking the pathway. Let's be honest, if you just look at Fraser, everything about him screams Championship Player!
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Post by Sir B3na1i on Jun 14, 2024 9:50:30 GMT
Journey man? A new PL squad needs players with good experience of PL and in particular the bit of the PL we'll be competing in. Weirdly, we don't have a lot of that in our squad despite spending the last few years in the bottom few - we only have Stephens, Bednarek, KWP with decent experience at that level really assuming Che and McCarthy go He's 30 and has played for 5 clubs but if it's semantics then just say bang average footballer in his 30s. He's had two seasons where he had a fairly decent return on goals (5 and 7) but that was 2017-19. We need experience is the old bollux from the 80s Illingsworth regularly trots out on TUI whenever we are going on a bad run but I think good players regardless of age are far more important. Also I really think we need to go back to the days of getting players from the Academy into our first team. No issues with bringing in an experienced player in his 30s if he is going to play pretty much every game but not when it's for a squad player who will be lucky to get 20 mins on the pitch most weeks. If we are bringing in old pros for these cameos then we are blocking the pathway. Let's be honest, if you just look at Fraser, everything about him screams Championship Player! Who from our Academy?! SAA and Dibling might be competing with Fraser for a slot but they had far less of an impact that Fraser last season when they played. It's a nice idea but we don't have the players
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Post by jickster on Jun 14, 2024 9:52:30 GMT
I read somewhere that we might go back in for Nathan Wood from Swansea. Can't find the link now. Maybe it was some random thing on X. Anyway, another rumour for the pile. Have we signed Frazer and Downes yet? If not, what's taking so long? And where is Matt O'Reilly? He's only 50mil. Oh and why isn't Ramsdale pictured on the OS yet? Come on Saints, get yer finger out! (OK, slow day at work.) I don't think the window is officially open yet? (and most contracts expire at the end of the month so not much activity until July). Arsenal will want more than £30m for Ramsdale so a bit out of our price bracket lol! Window opens today. So we'll start seeing simple deals like Fraser sorted soon.
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Post by saintsfan73 on Jun 14, 2024 9:54:33 GMT
He's 30 and has played for 5 clubs but if it's semantics then just say bang average footballer in his 30s. He's had two seasons where he had a fairly decent return on goals (5 and 7) but that was 2017-19. We need experience is the old bollux from the 80s Illingsworth regularly trots out on TUI whenever we are going on a bad run but I think good players regardless of age are far more important. Also I really think we need to go back to the days of getting players from the Academy into our first team. No issues with bringing in an experienced player in his 30s if he is going to play pretty much every game but not when it's for a squad player who will be lucky to get 20 mins on the pitch most weeks. If we are bringing in old pros for these cameos then we are blocking the pathway. Let's be honest, if you just look at Fraser, everything about him screams Championship Player! Who from our Academy?! SAA and Dibling might be competing with Fraser for a slot but they had far less of an impact that Fraser last season when they played. It's a nice idea but we don't have the players Well there you go, you've named two right off the top of your head. We're never going to have the players if they never get on the pitch. I would rather see Dibling given a few mins here and there than Fraser. We signed Theo in this experience type of role and he did f'k all for 2 seasons.
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Post by Sir B3na1i on Jun 14, 2024 9:57:16 GMT
Who from our Academy?! SAA and Dibling might be competing with Fraser for a slot but they had far less of an impact that Fraser last season when they played. It's a nice idea but we don't have the players Well there you go, you've named two right off the top of your head. We're never going to have the players if they never get on the pitch. I would rather see Dibling given a few mins here and there than Fraser. We signed Theo in this experience type of role and he did f'k all for 2 seasons. So you want us to play weaker players than the one that was ahead of them last season in the league below?
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Post by saintsfan73 on Jun 14, 2024 10:08:43 GMT
Well there you go, you've named two right off the top of your head. We're never going to have the players if they never get on the pitch. I would rather see Dibling given a few mins here and there than Fraser. We signed Theo in this experience type of role and he did f'k all for 2 seasons. So you want us to play weaker players than the one that was ahead of them last season in the league below? Young players improve pretty rapidly if they are given opportunities and are good enough. I'm not talking about starting Dibling but I wouldn't want Fraser starting either. But if we are talking about squad players who will get the odd few mins here and there I don't think we need to be bringing in players over 30 for this. Even the top clubs like Liverpool and City regularly give time to their kids. To use your line of argument, so you want us to play a player who was too weak for the PL last season in the PL this season? I assume after this passionate defence of Fraser you will be getting a shirt with his name on? (assume they only come in XS size).
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Post by Sir B3na1i on Jun 14, 2024 10:15:16 GMT
So you want us to play weaker players than the one that was ahead of them last season in the league below? Young players improve pretty rapidly if they are given opportunities and are good enough. I'm not talking about starting Dibling but I wouldn't want Fraser starting either. But if we are talking about squad players who will get the odd few mins here and there I don't think we need to be bringing in players over 30 for this. Even the top clubs like Liverpool and City regularly give time to their kids. To use your line of argument, so you want us to play a player who was too weak for the PL last season in the PL this season? I assume after this passionate defence of Fraser you will be getting a shirt with his name on? (assume they only come in XS size). I largely agree with you I would prefer to see academy lads playing, than buying older players - if they're better than the older player. Unfortunately they aren't and are a long way off. Fraser changed games SAA and Dibling disappeared in games. Hopefully over time they develop but they aren't anywhere near ready for the PL based on last seasons showing and so it would be mad to not take a free transfer with 200 PL games... The Walcott comparison is a silly one as he'd struggled for years with injury and was barely playing for a few seasons before he arrived with us, plus he was older
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Post by saintsfan73 on Jun 14, 2024 10:22:44 GMT
Young players improve pretty rapidly if they are given opportunities and are good enough. I'm not talking about starting Dibling but I wouldn't want Fraser starting either. But if we are talking about squad players who will get the odd few mins here and there I don't think we need to be bringing in players over 30 for this. Even the top clubs like Liverpool and City regularly give time to their kids. To use your line of argument, so you want us to play a player who was too weak for the PL last season in the PL this season? I assume after this passionate defence of Fraser you will be getting a shirt with his name on? (assume they only come in XS size). I largely agree with you I would prefer to see academy lads playing, than buying older players - if they're better than the older player. Unfortunately they aren't and are a long way off. Fraser changed games SAA and Dibling disappeared in games. Hopefully over time they develop but they aren't anywhere near ready for the PL based on last seasons showing and so it would be mad to not take a free transfer with 200 PL games... The Walcott comparison is a silly one as he'd struggled for years with injury and was barely playing for a few seasons before he arrived with us, plus he was older The thing with Academy players is they won't develop if they aren't played and of course you can't say Dibling is the better player at this minute in time. If he was then the club wouldn't even look twice at Fraser. Unfair to say he disappeared in games. He only played a few times, mainly for a couple of mins and just one start against Watford in the cup replay where I thought he looked good.
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Post by jickster on Jun 14, 2024 11:06:43 GMT
I don't think it necessarily blocks the pathway. We're talking on the other thread about JWP- do you remember our first game back in the PL 12 years ago, away to champions Man City, and Adkins picked 17 year old JWP to start?! He was a fringe player for a long time after that, but he had his chance early on, and the fact there were other experienced players in the squad as well didn't stop that. Last season Sam AA got some chances early on, did ok, then was put back in the reserves to develop. Similar things can happen next season and the fact that Fraser will be there as a steady option when needed I think gives us an array of choices at relatively low cost, he's already integrated into the squad and showed a good attitude last season, so it's a low risk signing that makes sense to me.
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