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Post by Sir B3na1i on Apr 9, 2024 8:45:48 GMT
9 goal contributions in 30 appearances largely from the bench. Not bad at all that I love all these new stats. Not a goal, or even an assist. But a 'goal contribution'. Does the keeper get one of those for rolling the ball out if it ends up in a goal? It is all that bad really. It's the same as with Charles. He's another punt for the future which actually cost another £10m. Again more than the transfer fees paid for the entirety of most Championship squads and again despite being bought to play in the PL he finds himself in tier 2 but still not being good enough to be more than a squad player. Not his fault, it's just a failed strategy. Small, Simeu, Larios, Edozie, Charles and Bazunu have all contributed very little to the team on the pitch in the last 2 years. And cost a fortune. The only saving grace is that it's a strategy we can no longer afford. OK 6 goals, 3 assists. Basically he has 1 goal just under every 2.5 games in minutes played. I know you look for the negatives in everything but Edozie this season isn't one. The fact Martin isn't playing him is! He's played the minutes of 14.7 games this season. That's a goal or assist every 1.6 games. Imagine if Martin played him!
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Post by saintsfan73 on Apr 9, 2024 10:20:50 GMT
I love all these new stats. Not a goal, or even an assist. But a 'goal contribution'. Does the keeper get one of those for rolling the ball out if it ends up in a goal? It is all that bad really. It's the same as with Charles. He's another punt for the future which actually cost another £10m. Again more than the transfer fees paid for the entirety of most Championship squads and again despite being bought to play in the PL he finds himself in tier 2 but still not being good enough to be more than a squad player. Not his fault, it's just a failed strategy. Small, Simeu, Larios, Edozie, Charles and Bazunu have all contributed very little to the team on the pitch in the last 2 years. And cost a fortune. The only saving grace is that it's a strategy we can no longer afford. OK 6 goals, 3 assists. Basically he has 1 goal just under every 2.5 games in minutes played. I know you look for the negatives in everything but Edozie this season isn't one. The fact Martin isn't playing him is! He's played the minutes of 14.7 games this season. That's a goal or assist every 1.6 games. Imagine if Martin played him! Is he better than Brooke/Fraser though? The issue is we have too many players of the same skillset/ability. Another SR failing.
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Post by Sir B3na1i on Apr 9, 2024 10:34:58 GMT
OK 6 goals, 3 assists. Basically he has 1 goal just under every 2.5 games in minutes played. I know you look for the negatives in everything but Edozie this season isn't one. The fact Martin isn't playing him is! He's played the minutes of 14.7 games this season. That's a goal or assist every 1.6 games. Imagine if Martin played him! Is he better than Brooke/Fraser though? The issue is we have too many players of the same skillset/ability. Another SR failing. Statistically he's just behind Fraser - 17 minutes worth of matches played, 11 goals/assists - so a G/A every 1.5 games. Brooks has only played the minutes for 5.5 games so it's a difficult one but he has an G/A every 1.1 games on that basis. It's a weird criticism you're raising though - basically your argument appears to be against having a squad? Or having players that are capable of doing their job properly in that squad? The general rule is 2 players for each position. The fact we have three wide attacks with decent stats is a weird thing to criticise SR for - there are many things to hit them over the head for but really, this? Add to that that Fraser and Brooks are loans and Edozie is ours. You've written a long list of failures - a couple fair but some not Charles, Edozie, Larios (injury isn't something we could judge) - I'd say if you want to criticise anything it has to be Sulemana right? Basically no contribution for £20m
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Post by jickster on Apr 9, 2024 10:36:08 GMT
OK 6 goals, 3 assists. Basically he has 1 goal just under every 2.5 games in minutes played. I know you look for the negatives in everything but Edozie this season isn't one. The fact Martin isn't playing him is! He's played the minutes of 14.7 games this season. That's a goal or assist every 1.6 games. Imagine if Martin played him! Is he better than Brooke/Fraser though? The issue is we have too many players of the same skillset/ability. Another SR failing. I think that among the criticisms we can make, the attacking options are probably low down the list. We've got multiple options and they have sometimes made the difference, many times these players have come off the bench and changed games (while we we still in the hunt of automatic promotion) or been useful as rotation to help to avoid complete burnout among the set of players. They have all gone off the boil recently which has contributed to us falling away from the top 3, yes, but I think this particular criticism can only be made in hindsight. Having Brooks, Fraser, Edozie, Sulemana and A Armstrong as wide attackers come the end of the transfer window put us with a set of players that were well equipped to handle a heavy workload. You can't just have 3 guys and play them all the time. Maybe a better rotation option for Che Adams would have been useful, but who? It's the hardest position to fill and Mara never follows up on brief flashes. Among those, Sulemana has clearly been the biggest letdown. I think it is very harsh to pick on Edozie, he may not have had a Lavia level of impact but he has contributed and I would not write him off as a failed transfer, I think he looks to have more to offer in the future.
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Post by jickster on Apr 9, 2024 10:37:11 GMT
Is he better than Brooke/Fraser though? The issue is we have too many players of the same skillset/ability. Another SR failing. Statistically he's just behind Fraser - 17 minutes worth of matches played, 11 goals/assists - so a G/A every 1.5 games. Brooks has only played the minutes for 5.5 games so it's a difficult one but he has an G/A every 1.1 games on that basis. It's a weird criticism you're raising though - basically your argument appears to be against having a squad? Or having players that are capable of doing their job properly in that squad? The general rule is 2 players for each position. The fact we have three wide attacks with decent stats is a weird thing to criticise SR for - there are many things to hit them over the head for but really, this? Add to that that Fraser and Brooks are loans and Edozie is ours. You've written a long list of failures - a couple fair but some not Charles, Edozie, Larios (injury isn't something we could judge) - I'd say if you want to criticise anything it has to be Sulemana right? Basically no contribution for £20m We just typed the exact same post at the same time
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Post by Sir B3na1i on Apr 9, 2024 10:46:03 GMT
Is he better than Brooke/Fraser though? The issue is we have too many players of the same skillset/ability. Another SR failing. I think that among the criticisms we can make, the attacking options are probably low down the list. We've got multiple options and they have sometimes made the difference, many times these players have come off the bench and changed games (while we we still in the hunt of automatic promotion) or been useful as rotation to help to avoid complete burnout among the set of players. They have all gone off the boil recently which has contributed to us falling away from the top 3, yes, but I think this particular criticism can only be made in hindsight. Having Brooks, Fraser, Edozie, Sulemana and A Armstrong as wide attackers come the end of the transfer window put us with a set of players that were well equipped to handle a heavy workload. You can't just have 3 guys and play them all the time. Maybe a better rotation option for Che Adams would have been useful, but who? It's the hardest position to fill and Mara never follows up on brief flashes. Among those, Sulemana has clearly been the biggest letdown. I think it is very harsh to pick on Edozie, he may not have had a Lavia level of impact but he has contributed and I would not write him off as a failed transfer, I think he looks to have more to offer in the future. Kiefer Moore looks to be a great bit of business by Ipswich and would have been perfect for our wide options* but there's no way SR sign a 33 y/o journeyman they think they're better than that. *Imagine the assist stats for Brooks, Fraser, Edozie, A Armstrong, even Sulemana had there been someone other than Adams to hit with crosses
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Post by saintsfan73 on Apr 9, 2024 10:49:45 GMT
Is he better than Brooke/Fraser though? The issue is we have too many players of the same skillset/ability. Another SR failing. Statistically he's just behind Fraser - 17 minutes worth of matches played, 11 goals/assists - so a G/A every 1.5 games. Brooks has only played the minutes for 5.5 games so it's a difficult one but he has an G/A every 1.1 games on that basis. It's a weird criticism you're raising though - basically your argument appears to be against having a squad? Or having players that are capable of doing their job properly in that squad? The general rule is 2 players for each position. The fact we have three wide attacks with decent stats is a weird thing to criticise SR for - there are many things to hit them over the head for but really, this? Add to that that Fraser and Brooks are loans and Edozie is ours. You've written a long list of failures - a couple fair but some not Charles, Edozie, Larios (injury isn't something we could judge) - I'd say if you want to criticise anything it has to be Sulemana right? Basically no contribution for £20m The fact that we are starting loans over players we have bought who cost more than most squads at this level combined is a bit of a sad inditement of SR? I'm not criticising the players themselves, some may go on to be decent players in the future. It's the strategy I am criticising. Last season it was obvious we needed players who could contribute from day 1 but we bought punts for the future and came last. Similarly this season was our big chance to go up but instead of buying players who could help this season we bought players who might help the bank balance in a few years time.
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Post by Sir B3na1i on Apr 9, 2024 11:05:36 GMT
Statistically he's just behind Fraser - 17 minutes worth of matches played, 11 goals/assists - so a G/A every 1.5 games. Brooks has only played the minutes for 5.5 games so it's a difficult one but he has an G/A every 1.1 games on that basis. It's a weird criticism you're raising though - basically your argument appears to be against having a squad? Or having players that are capable of doing their job properly in that squad? The general rule is 2 players for each position. The fact we have three wide attacks with decent stats is a weird thing to criticise SR for - there are many things to hit them over the head for but really, this? Add to that that Fraser and Brooks are loans and Edozie is ours. You've written a long list of failures - a couple fair but some not Charles, Edozie, Larios (injury isn't something we could judge) - I'd say if you want to criticise anything it has to be Sulemana right? Basically no contribution for £20m The fact that we are starting loans over players we have bought who cost more than most squads at this level combined is a bit of a sad inditement of SR? I'm not criticising the players themselves, some may go on to be decent players in the future. It's the strategy I am criticising. Last season it was obvious we needed players who could contribute from day 1 but we bought punts for the future and came last. Similarly this season was our big chance to go up but instead of buying players who could help this season we bought players who might help the bank balance in a few years time. The strategy last season was 100% wrong yes, we have the evidence of that. This season I'm not so sure. This is the Championship - it's built on loans. You only loan in a player that can improve your squad and on the whole we've done that. Downes, Fraser, THB are top performers in this squad, Brooks is absolute quality but hasn't played a lot. Rothwell is a question mark but has made some big contributions. Holgate was a mistake, but we did need a 4th choice CB and that's a really tricky spot to fill and with Simeu being injured I imagine the initial plan might have been for him to be it, but we had to roll the dice. Signing Edozie in the PL was a mistake, he was a fish out of water, but having him in this Championship squad has been a success. Realistically if we go up I think it's still too soon for him, so actually the best thing for him might be to stay with us next season in the Championship. Charles is a good signing, he has played well when called upon, but he is up against a PL player who's arguable the best in his position in this league. You've been (rightly) saying with this squad we should be top 2 all season, you can't now look at the squad and call it a mistake. The mistakes are IMO being made by the manager. Why is Sulemana* starting over the likes of Edozie / Fraser who have proven their worth? Why is a backline that got incredibly mean being tinkered with every week to shoehorn in a player that on ability isn't as good as as the others? Why do we keep messing around with Smallbone / Stu / Aribo / Rothwell in the starting roles when we were at our best with Smallbone / Stu and the Aribo and Rothwell having the impact roles from the bench. I don't think having players that are subs who perform is an issue - it's a different game now and subs are huge but I do think tinkering with a side that went 25 unbeaten is a major mistake. It smacks of the ego of a man who's started to believe his own hype before he's achieved anything. I hope he can learn from it, but I fear he can't. *Watch him start and get a hattrick tonight now - I fecking hope so!
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Post by Sir B3na1i on Apr 9, 2024 11:10:39 GMT
Statistically he's just behind Fraser - 17 minutes worth of matches played, 11 goals/assists - so a G/A every 1.5 games. Brooks has only played the minutes for 5.5 games so it's a difficult one but he has an G/A every 1.1 games on that basis. It's a weird criticism you're raising though - basically your argument appears to be against having a squad? Or having players that are capable of doing their job properly in that squad? The general rule is 2 players for each position. The fact we have three wide attacks with decent stats is a weird thing to criticise SR for - there are many things to hit them over the head for but really, this? Add to that that Fraser and Brooks are loans and Edozie is ours. You've written a long list of failures - a couple fair but some not Charles, Edozie, Larios (injury isn't something we could judge) - I'd say if you want to criticise anything it has to be Sulemana right? Basically no contribution for £20m We just typed the exact same post at the same time You know what I say, Jickster is the most sensible poster on here. If we agree I'm happy
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Post by jickster on Apr 9, 2024 12:17:27 GMT
The fact that we are starting loans over players we have bought who cost more than most squads at this level combined is a bit of a sad inditement of SR? I'm not criticising the players themselves, some may go on to be decent players in the future. It's the strategy I am criticising. Last season it was obvious we needed players who could contribute from day 1 but we bought punts for the future and came last. Similarly this season was our big chance to go up but instead of buying players who could help this season we bought players who might help the bank balance in a few years time. The strategy last season was 100% wrong yes, we have the evidence of that. This season I'm not so sure. This is the Championship - it's built on loans. You only loan in a player that can improve your squad and on the whole we've done that. Downes, Fraser, THB are top performers in this squad, Brooks is absolute quality but hasn't played a lot. Rothwell is a question mark but has made some big contributions. Holgate was a mistake, but we did need a 4th choice CB and that's a really tricky spot to fill and with Simeu being injured I imagine the initial plan might have been for him to be it, but we had to roll the dice. Signing Edozie in the PL was a mistake, he was a fish out of water, but having him in this Championship squad has been a success. Realistically if we go up I think it's still too soon for him, so actually the best thing for him might be to stay with us next season in the Championship. Charles is a good signing, he has played well when called upon, but he is up against a PL player who's arguable the best in his position in this league. You've been (rightly) saying with this squad we should be top 2 all season, you can't now look at the squad and call it a mistake. The mistakes are IMO being made by the manager. Why is Sulemana* starting over the likes of Edozie / Fraser who have proven their worth? Why is a backline that got incredibly mean being tinkered with every week to shoehorn in a player that on ability isn't as good as as the others? Why do we keep messing around with Smallbone / Stu / Aribo / Rothwell in the starting roles when we were at our best with Smallbone / Stu and the Aribo and Rothwell having the impact roles from the bench. I don't think having players that are subs who perform is an issue - it's a different game now and subs are huge but I do think tinkering with a side that went 25 unbeaten is a major mistake. It smacks of the ego of a man who's started to believe his own hype before he's achieved anything. I hope he can learn from it, but I fear he can't. *Watch him start and get a hattrick tonight now - I fecking hope so! You will be pleased to hear I think this is all very sensible and I agree with all of it apart from 'we should be top 2 all season'. Only 2 teams can be top 2 all season and where I give RM a bit of leeway is that I think he had a harder task than either Leicester or Leeds to pick the squad off the floor and adapt to life in the Championship. There was a bit of chat on here towards the end of the unbeaten run where I gave him a lot of credit because the poor September had been dealt with and he'd addressed the issues to get a long string of results- this was actually in many ways a bigger achievement than just swanning in and running away with it the way Leicester looked like they were going to. I'm disappointed with the way he's responded to the first defeat though and having got us into a position to get automatic promotion it all seems a bit needless to have dropped off quite so much when he'd got a template that worked. I do still believe in him, more than others do. But he does have work to do to restore confidence in the squad.
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Post by saintsfan73 on Apr 9, 2024 12:19:14 GMT
The fact that we are starting loans over players we have bought who cost more than most squads at this level combined is a bit of a sad inditement of SR? I'm not criticising the players themselves, some may go on to be decent players in the future. It's the strategy I am criticising. Last season it was obvious we needed players who could contribute from day 1 but we bought punts for the future and came last. Similarly this season was our big chance to go up but instead of buying players who could help this season we bought players who might help the bank balance in a few years time. The strategy last season was 100% wrong yes, we have the evidence of that. This season I'm not so sure. This is the Championship - it's built on loans. You only loan in a player that can improve your squad and on the whole we've done that. Downes, Fraser, THB are top performers in this squad, Brooks is absolute quality but hasn't played a lot. Rothwell is a question mark but has made some big contributions. Holgate was a mistake, but we did need a 4th choice CB and that's a really tricky spot to fill and with Simeu being injured I imagine the initial plan might have been for him to be it, but we had to roll the dice. Signing Edozie in the PL was a mistake, he was a fish out of water, but having him in this Championship squad has been a success. Realistically if we go up I think it's still too soon for him, so actually the best thing for him might be to stay with us next season in the Championship. Charles is a good signing, he has played well when called upon, but he is up against a PL player who's arguable the best in his position in this league. You've been (rightly) saying with this squad we should be top 2 all season, you can't now look at the squad and call it a mistake. The mistakes are IMO being made by the manager. Why is Sulemana* starting over the likes of Edozie / Fraser who have proven their worth? Why is a backline that got incredibly mean being tinkered with every week to shoehorn in a player that on ability isn't as good as as the others? Why do we keep messing around with Smallbone / Stu / Aribo / Rothwell in the starting roles when we were at our best with Smallbone / Stu and the Aribo and Rothwell having the impact roles from the bench. I don't think having players that are subs who perform is an issue - it's a different game now and subs are huge but I do think tinkering with a side that went 25 unbeaten is a major mistake. It smacks of the ego of a man who's started to believe his own hype before he's achieved anything. I hope he can learn from it, but I fear he can't. *Watch him start and get a hattrick tonight now - I fecking hope so! We've done well with loans but that's not that difficult, we have a good infrastructure/training facilities, were an established PL club and are happy to pay big wages so PL clubs are happy to loan players to us rather than the likes of Milwall or Blackburn. The difference between playoffs and top 2 this season was how well we spent the £17m we had available for new signings (given the average spend per year for non-parachute teams is about £2m) You would have to say Wilcox messed this up with the signings of Charles and the (already injured) CNM.
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Post by Sir B3na1i on Apr 9, 2024 12:24:23 GMT
The strategy last season was 100% wrong yes, we have the evidence of that. This season I'm not so sure. This is the Championship - it's built on loans. You only loan in a player that can improve your squad and on the whole we've done that. Downes, Fraser, THB are top performers in this squad, Brooks is absolute quality but hasn't played a lot. Rothwell is a question mark but has made some big contributions. Holgate was a mistake, but we did need a 4th choice CB and that's a really tricky spot to fill and with Simeu being injured I imagine the initial plan might have been for him to be it, but we had to roll the dice. Signing Edozie in the PL was a mistake, he was a fish out of water, but having him in this Championship squad has been a success. Realistically if we go up I think it's still too soon for him, so actually the best thing for him might be to stay with us next season in the Championship. Charles is a good signing, he has played well when called upon, but he is up against a PL player who's arguable the best in his position in this league. You've been (rightly) saying with this squad we should be top 2 all season, you can't now look at the squad and call it a mistake. The mistakes are IMO being made by the manager. Why is Sulemana* starting over the likes of Edozie / Fraser who have proven their worth? Why is a backline that got incredibly mean being tinkered with every week to shoehorn in a player that on ability isn't as good as as the others? Why do we keep messing around with Smallbone / Stu / Aribo / Rothwell in the starting roles when we were at our best with Smallbone / Stu and the Aribo and Rothwell having the impact roles from the bench. I don't think having players that are subs who perform is an issue - it's a different game now and subs are huge but I do think tinkering with a side that went 25 unbeaten is a major mistake. It smacks of the ego of a man who's started to believe his own hype before he's achieved anything. I hope he can learn from it, but I fear he can't. *Watch him start and get a hattrick tonight now - I fecking hope so! You will be pleased to hear I think this is all very sensible and I agree with all of it apart from 'we should be top 2 all season'. Only 2 teams can be top 2 all season and where I give RM a bit of leeway is that I think he had a harder task than either Leicester or Leeds to pick the squad off the floor and adapt to life in the Championship. There was a bit of chat on here towards the end of the unbeaten run where I gave him a lot of credit because the poor September had been dealt with and he'd addressed the issues to get a long string of results- this was actually in many ways a bigger achievement than just swanning in and running away with it the way Leicester looked like they were going to. I'm disappointed with the way he's responded to the first defeat though and having got us into a position to get automatic promotion it all seems a bit needless to have dropped off quite so much when he'd got a template that worked. I do still believe in him, more than others do. But he does have work to do to restore confidence in the squad. That was a bit of bad English on my part what I meant was, all season SF73 has been saying this squad is good enough for top 2 - and he is right. On paper this is one of the best squads, and so he's also right that there have been mistakes elsewhere - some of that is a hangover from last year's mistakes as you point out as we were a shitshow when we came down - more so than the other two.
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Post by Sir B3na1i on Apr 9, 2024 12:26:27 GMT
The strategy last season was 100% wrong yes, we have the evidence of that. This season I'm not so sure. This is the Championship - it's built on loans. You only loan in a player that can improve your squad and on the whole we've done that. Downes, Fraser, THB are top performers in this squad, Brooks is absolute quality but hasn't played a lot. Rothwell is a question mark but has made some big contributions. Holgate was a mistake, but we did need a 4th choice CB and that's a really tricky spot to fill and with Simeu being injured I imagine the initial plan might have been for him to be it, but we had to roll the dice. Signing Edozie in the PL was a mistake, he was a fish out of water, but having him in this Championship squad has been a success. Realistically if we go up I think it's still too soon for him, so actually the best thing for him might be to stay with us next season in the Championship. Charles is a good signing, he has played well when called upon, but he is up against a PL player who's arguable the best in his position in this league. You've been (rightly) saying with this squad we should be top 2 all season, you can't now look at the squad and call it a mistake. The mistakes are IMO being made by the manager. Why is Sulemana* starting over the likes of Edozie / Fraser who have proven their worth? Why is a backline that got incredibly mean being tinkered with every week to shoehorn in a player that on ability isn't as good as as the others? Why do we keep messing around with Smallbone / Stu / Aribo / Rothwell in the starting roles when we were at our best with Smallbone / Stu and the Aribo and Rothwell having the impact roles from the bench. I don't think having players that are subs who perform is an issue - it's a different game now and subs are huge but I do think tinkering with a side that went 25 unbeaten is a major mistake. It smacks of the ego of a man who's started to believe his own hype before he's achieved anything. I hope he can learn from it, but I fear he can't. *Watch him start and get a hattrick tonight now - I fecking hope so! We've done well with loans but that's not that difficult, we have a good infrastructure/training facilities, were an established PL club and are happy to pay big wages so PL clubs are happy to loan players to us rather than the likes of Milwall or Blackburn. The difference between playoffs and top 2 this season was how well we spent the £17m we had available for new signings (given the average spend per year for non-parachute teams is about £2m) You would have to say Wilcox messed this up with the signings of Charles and the (already injured) CNM. CNM was a huge mistake for this season and we basically admitted it when we panicked and blocked Adams' move to the PL at the last minute... But a little like Edozie it might pay off next season as if he ever gets fit he will score goals at this level and I can't see anyone signing him... but that was never the plan when he was bought
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Post by jickster on Apr 9, 2024 12:37:32 GMT
I guess CNM is Ross Stewart, but I think I missed the day that nickname was created, can someone explain?
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Post by Sir B3na1i on Apr 9, 2024 12:40:00 GMT
I guess CNM is Ross Stewart, but I think I missed the day that nickname was created, can someone explain? He arrived with the nickname of Loch Ness Drogba. I think Yateley. maybe SF73 changed it to Crock New Monster
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