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Post by The Rover on Mar 28, 2011 14:00:48 GMT
If Leeds Poly are going to charge £8500 p.a. it just about proves that this coalition government have killed the concept of further education for all.
It's going to be fine if your parents are in the lowest 10% income bracket and you get subsidised. If your parents are in the top 10% they can probably afford to pay your loan off.
As for the other 80%, you'll be forking out a very reasonable 9% of your salary to pay it off for most of your working life.
I've believed in Proportional Representation as the best way of running government for a long time. Clegg and Cable have certainly opened my eyes with their complete abandonment of a key policy.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2011 14:13:59 GMT
Half of the 'free further education for all' campaign and expansion of the 6th forms at schools has been about reducing the youth unemployment levels over the last 25 years. All we had done in that, as many other stupid ideas, is put off the day of economic reckoning - inflationary expansion of the economy can't be sustained indefinitely. FACT
*St Baz - cynic.
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Post by The Rover on Mar 28, 2011 15:05:33 GMT
I'm sure that there is a lot of truth in that although I believe that the percentages of youngsters going through F.E in this country used to lag well behind many other European nations.
I'd rather see tighter entrance requirements, lower numbers and sensible funding for those that do go, than the current mess.
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Post by Mandochris on Mar 28, 2011 15:13:48 GMT
I'd rather see tighter entrance requirements, lower numbers and sensible funding for those that do go, than the current mess. I believe that is the way to go. In France, university is free and you can automatically get in if you get the Baccalaureat. The result is that university degrees do not carry much weight on a CV and the fee paying schools deliver better quality teaching (allegedly) and you have a better chance of a decent job. They also pay their professors better!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2011 16:32:15 GMT
Isn't there a two tier university system whereby the 'Grandes ecoles' recruit by competition unlike the other universities who, as you say, take anyone who has passed the bac?
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Post by Mandochris on Mar 28, 2011 19:34:40 GMT
Isn't there a two tier university system whereby the 'Grandes ecoles' recruit by competition unlike the other universities who, as you say, take anyone who has passed the bac? Yes. You take the exam and pay through the nose. There is a clear hierarchy among the grandes and not so grandes écoles, too.
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Post by channonite on Mar 29, 2011 7:57:20 GMT
Interesting about the French system. My niece got married about six years ago and moved to a small village North West of Carcassonne. They now have a girl, aged 6 and a boy aged 4, who both go to the local village school. Very impressed with what I have seen of their education. They both speak fluent French, yet speak English with a strong Yorkshire accent (their parents were born and brought up in Scarborough!). I was wondering how their education will differ as they grow up. So far, so good though.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2011 8:02:07 GMT
I believe that the French system believes that children should be educated, guided and moulded rather then left to find their own intellectual way in the world (assuming their parents are unable or unwilling to be able to do this). I'm sure that Chris will confirm yea or no.
But they all , at Bac level, have to do some philosophy which is why there are some interminably boring TV programmes - but the plus side is the cafe culture.
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Post by channonite on Mar 29, 2011 8:12:44 GMT
To me the really interesting thing is that they say there is not the slightest hint of any discrimination against the "outsiders". They have been welcomed with open arms. Something that I wonder would happen if the situation were reversed.
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Post by Mandochris on Mar 29, 2011 8:31:19 GMT
Well, this is a biggie. The French state education system is fine if you fit in. If your child is slightly out of the "ordinary" (whatever that is), it will not adapt. I have some friends who came back from the States and their child was used to working on projects and stuff (in primary school) and in France teacher teaches and children learn (often by rote) and the teacher told the kid's parents their daughter was hopeless (and this teacher was only about 30). So, as I say, if your kid fits the system then he or she will enjoy a fine education. However, it is not recommended to have opinions, especially if they differ from the teacher - and this also holds good in university!! The teacher teaches and is always right (I got into a row over a scene from The Sound and the Fury and was told that if I wanted to pass the exam, I would have to write what I was told to write. I believe it is some form of protectionism, which the French do very well).
As for racism, I don't know. I have never really felt it, but one of my kids aged 6 (half Japanese) was called a "Chink" by one of her fellow pupils. Not in a nice way. There is a good deal of racism in France and it is nearly, but not quite, overt.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2011 10:25:42 GMT
I've never noticed any animosity toward me as an Englishman when I'm at our place in Normandy. I've heard some English people there complain that they've found the French to be stand-offish (I suspect that has more to do with those people not extending the everyday courtesies that the French practise ...and expect).
Can't say that I have found them to be anything other than polite and neighbourly (toujours la politesse!) even though I'm not there more than a handful of months a year and we're not exactly on top of each other.
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Post by Mandochris on Mar 29, 2011 10:30:57 GMT
Baz, you are white. I've never had a problem either. My wife has - even in supermarket queues from the cahsier not treating her the same way as others. I'm not saying it happens every time and I used to think she was imagining it but I believe it does happen sometimes.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2011 10:37:08 GMT
Baz, you are white. I've never had a problem either. My wife has - even in supermarket queues from the cahsier not treating her the same way as others. I'm not saying it happens every time and I used to think she was imagining it but I believe it does happen sometimes. I can quite believe that - as I was writing I was thinking that I would, perhaps, find it very different if I was Algerian, say. My bit of Manche is very old-fashioned - like life was when I was young - which is probably why I like it.
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