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Post by THE BEAST on Feb 16, 2012 19:42:17 GMT
you know when I was watching last night I could just imagine this post happening… I'm sorry I had to wait all day to get on and find out I was right And I think FourFourTwo can work against teams that are shit and play the other systems, but I don't disagree with any of your initial posts LB or Shirley (Van Bommel… Shirley, don't you think he's a bit of a poor man's Hammond? ) I think our problem with playing the diamond is that our fullbacks aren't good enough and if we ever do outnumber people in the middle by some quirk everybody seems to just get condensed not "flowing forward in an unstoppable wave". Arsenal last night looked a bit like we have lately, always going sideways when they should have been going forwards, thankfully we seem to be getting over it, not sure about Arsenal? Milan were superb, I haven't seen them play for a long time and I just couldn't believe how overwhelmingly good they were (although I still can't stand Robinho) and Arsenal were poor and the tactics were awful.
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Post by ivangolac on Feb 16, 2012 20:08:53 GMT
Arsenal lost because most of their players are shitt and their manager is a complete idiot who has lost the plot, nothing to do with formations.
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Post by lostboy on Feb 16, 2012 20:56:03 GMT
So how do we decide teams are so bad that we can play 4-4-2 against them? Play it, go a goal down, had to re-group and then chase the game? 'cos that's what we've done and it's not been terribly successful has it.
Our full backs not good enough? You are having a laugh! There aren't two better in the league!
Milan were good but they were handed it on a plate for the reasons discussed.
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Post by THE BEAST on Feb 16, 2012 21:12:18 GMT
So how do we decide teams are so bad that we can play 4-4-2 against them? I would have thought that was an easy one, the crap teams are pretty easy to pick Play it, go a goal down, had to re-group and then chase the game? 'cos that's what we've done and it's not been terribly successful has it. but that's not always because of this bullshit tactics overlord that's riding you, sometimes it's just because stuff doesn't work or people make mistakes… Although, at times, you're absolutely right Our full backs not good enough? You are having a laugh! There aren't two better in the league! I wouldn't say that was true, there are better in a number of teams throughout the league although it will be interesting if Butterfield plays on Saturday… not got the legs any more but he can see a cross or pass that the forwards will like
Milan were good but they were handed it on a plate for the reasons discussed. you always seem to have trouble with who did what to whom, sometimes opposition give the game to the other team and sometimes teams take games and don't let the others in, whatever you say about yesterday I would posit that Milan did the latter with a bit of the former chucked in but not as the deciding factorAnyway, I'm going to go watch more football and then come on here tomorrow and disagree with what you say…*Fish mouth smiley*
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Post by shirleymush on Feb 16, 2012 21:12:26 GMT
So how do we decide teams are so bad that we can play 4-4-2 against them? Play it, go a goal down, had to re-group and then chase the game? 'cos that's what we've done and it's not been terribly successful has it. Our full backs not good enough? You are having a laugh! There aren't two better in the league! Milan were good but they were handed it on a plate for the reasons discussed. Frazer Richardson has more assists this season than any other player in the NPC.
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Post by THE BEAST on Feb 16, 2012 21:14:32 GMT
So how do we decide teams are so bad that we can play 4-4-2 against them? Play it, go a goal down, had to re-group and then chase the game? 'cos that's what we've done and it's not been terribly successful has it. Our full backs not good enough? You are having a laugh! There aren't two better in the league! Milan were good but they were handed it on a plate for the reasons discussed. Frazer Richardson has more assists this season than any other player in the NPC. I'm sorry, did we go American all of a sudden? I just experienced a shuddering flashforward moment of baseball fans appearing all over the country and taking over sports broadcasting
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Post by lostboy on Feb 16, 2012 21:21:49 GMT
You've not read tonight's Echo have you Crash. Fraser top of the list of assists with 11 and Fox in a gaggle of players on 8. Everyone else on the list is a midfielder or striker (including Guly and Lambert who have..... the same as Fox!
If it's that easy to decide then you'd best tell Nige because he thought it was a plan to do it against Cardiff and West Ham......
You need to read my original post, I told you how Milan took the game, so clearly I have no issues whatever with seeing what went on. The fact that Arsenal didn't counter it makes my summary complete.
Did you watch the Manure game tonight? Perhaps you'd like to tell me how they dominated a weak Ajax team with their 4-4-2 in the first half so well that every statistic showed them behind and Fergue decided to drop Rooney back into MF to counter their holding player in the second half...... We know what happened then!
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Post by shirleymush on Feb 16, 2012 21:28:30 GMT
Frazer Richardson has more assists this season than any other player in the NPC. I'm sorry, did we go American all of a sudden? I just experienced a shuddering flashforward moment of baseball fans appearing all over the country and taking over sports broadcasting OK, so you have announced that he isn't good enough and poured scorn on my evidence to the contrary. Do you actually have anything to back up your claim that he's no good? When I had a pop at Hammond yesterday you got very indignant, but when I explained why, you ended up agreeing with a fair bit of it. So- why is Richardson not "good enough"? There are lots of posts in this thread which are obviously designed to wind up those of us who have certain beliefs about certain tactics and their influence on games. That's fine- I enjoy the banter and enjoy fighting my corner. If you're going to pertain to some higher understanding though, at least back it up with some good, old-fashioned FACTS. FYI, Fox has 8 assists.
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Post by shirleymush on Feb 16, 2012 21:31:38 GMT
Did you watch the Manure game tonight? Perhaps you'd like to tell me how they dominated a weak Ajax team with their 4-4-2 in the first half so well that every statistic showed them behind and Fergue decided to drop Rooney back into MF to counter their holding player in the second half...... We know what happened then! Haha, couldn't wait for that one to crop up! I had a text from my dad while I was taking training tonight telling me that for once I'd be chuffed that United had won as they'd played done so having had to abandon 4-4-2 (yes, I dron on about it to him as well...).
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Post by Batts on Feb 17, 2012 0:31:28 GMT
*awaits reply to Chris' post with interest* We played 5-3-2 with a leather ball at school. I'm lost with all this new stuff. Whatever happened to all the old positions? When I first started playing I used to be an inside left and as I grew older I moved to left half.
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Post by Sir B3na1i on Feb 17, 2012 7:53:41 GMT
I'm sorry but AC Milan beat Arsenal because AC Milan are better than Arsenal man for man buy some distance. Man U beat Ajax because Man U are better than Ajax man for man.
Just like if We played 4-4-2 / 4-3-3 / 5-3-2 / 1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1 (the Batts) against Bournemouth we'd be better than them and win.
Ultimately the formation we play (whatever it is) has seen us promoted and now 2nd top of the next league - We're doing something right!
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Post by lostboy on Feb 17, 2012 8:47:00 GMT
That's a wonderfully simplistic view Benny that also means that Bristol City (twice), Doncaster, Millwall, Leicester etc. are all better than us. Is that really true? Did all of our players form falter, spectacularly, at the same time or, as is more likely, did we not set ourselves up to win the game?
Forget last season, that's gone. As we had the largest salary bill in the division, reflecting the quality of the players that we had, we should have walked it. This season is different and yes, we started very well and are doing well to hold on to our second place. But I'd argue that with the players that we have, who I regard as some of the best in the league (see comments in this thread and many, many others) we should not be putting ourselves under the pressure that we have recently, and that's down to one thing.
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Post by spot51 on Feb 17, 2012 8:53:01 GMT
Could anyone enlighten me as to what formation Porto were playing last night? It looked like 3-1-5-1 from where I was sat.
For the first hour they had Man City chasing shadows yet they fell apart in the final 30 mins and lost it.
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Post by lostboy on Feb 17, 2012 8:56:54 GMT
No, 'cos I didn't watch it. Sorry.
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Post by Sir B3na1i on Feb 17, 2012 9:25:58 GMT
That's a wonderfully simplistic view Benny that also means that Bristol City (twice), Doncaster, Millwall, Leicester etc. are all better than us. Is that really true? Did all of our players form falter, spectacularly, at the same time or, as is more likely, did we not set ourselves up to win the game? Forget last season, that's gone. As we had the largest salary bill in the division, reflecting the quality of the players that we had, we should have walked it. This season is different and yes, we started very well and are doing well to hold on to our second place. But I'd argue that with the players that we have, who I regard as some of the best in the league (see comments in this thread and many, many others) we should not be putting ourselves under the pressure that we have recently, and that's down to one thing. Teams win and lose games, we lose less than most these days hence why we are where we are... I don't believe we have the best players in this league. We have good players capable of doing well in this league, but let's be honest when this season started most of us expected mid-table with the players we had, and we haven't added to the squad that extensively, it's largely the same group that came out of L1 (In 2nd place!). Man Utd lose games occasionally against teams lesser than them (we used to beat them fairly regularly), you're not telling me that Fergie, found a winning formula but decided to tinker with it occasionally just for an experiment with the possible effect of losing the league? No, what happened was our players over performed in those matches and their players probably underperformed. Just like when we were beaten by Bristol City and Donny
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